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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:06 am    Post subject: "Anybody" want to merit ?  Reply with quote  

Kade
The Duke of San d'Oria


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: WI

For the 2nd time in as many weeks, i have seen the question "Anybody want to merit" asked in linkshell chat, and 2nd time was left out because all i have at level 75 is PLD.

I've tried to let this go, and do other things to get my mind off of it, but after 5yrs of playing FFXI mostly as PLD, i've put too much time and effort into said job, i just can't.

I think it's funny how people say FFXI needs more tanks, but to be honest, there are plenty of PLD tanks in this game.

Want to know where they are when not doing end-game or helping others ?

They are doing campaign trying to get thier exp or merits any way they can, however slow it may be, since they are to gimp for Aht Uhrghan "merit" parties.

This is why i'm not too concerned with end-game, or fighting beseiged anymore.

It sucks to know people want you to tank mobs for them they can't otherwise kill, and be the 1st to risk losing exp, but when it comes time for the PLD to replenish lost exp, or get merits to help improve thier job, they are an afterthought.

One of the things i was proud of for being a founding member of THS is the fact that we were not biased towards anybody when it came to merits/exp, but lately that seems to not be the case.

I'm not even sure if i want to try to get to Limbus anymore for my PLD, since i would be expected to do my job and tank, but what is the point of getting better tank gear when all your tank seems to be good for is tanking to help other people get better gear ?

I have SAM at 65, not too far from being able to merit on that, thankfully i leveled that because i wanted to, and enjoy the job, not becuase i feel ostricized and left out on my current main job.

Next time you say "anybody" want to merit, think about the pld that tanks the mobs for you when you need a tank job, or the pld who tosses a raise at you in campaign or beseiged, or the pld tosses a cure on you to keep you alive, or to wake you up so you can enjoy fighting a mob, or the one of will help you do quests/missions/BCNMs that need a tank, etc.

It might come as a suprised, but we do like exp/merits as much as the next job too.


/end rant
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

LuckyAlex
Why hasn't Lucky asked for a title yet?


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 491

I know how you feel and /comfort for not inviting you, you might try to gear up your pld either with /sam + GS DD or /nin dual sword with DD gear and ask to join as DD pld.

On colibri the mobs were dead in 10 seconds, your voke/flash would be down for 3-4 mobs before you could get hate and you would lose it to a dd 1st ws so without DD gears and playing pld/dd your contribution would have been near to none(i know i went whm a long time ago on a colibri merit and the rdm was outclassing me thanks to fastcast and i didn't had any good DD gear for my whm so i was severely gimping the exp).

Unless your going for stronger nastier mobs like trolls or imps(on them a pld tank can be useful) a main tank is useless, if you have good DD gear and ask to come as a DD pld then you could be invited but if you say on LS i would join you but only thing i have is lol pld then i'm sorry you don't help your invite rate, if you say you have good acc/att/str/dex gears for your pld then you should get more invites(maybe 50% of the time but better then 0%).

And i know how you feel i have pld too, but i got invited in merit pt's on pld at least on the non-colibri merits.

And i don't want to seam mean because i totaly understand your position but you left out whm, they get the shaft as often as pld

Kade wrote:
Next time you say "anybody" want to merit, think about the pld that tanks the mobs for you when you need a tank job, or the pld who tosses a raise at you in campaign or beseiged, or the pld tosses a cure on you to keep you alive, or to wake you up so you can enjoy fighting a mob, or the one of will help you do quests/missions/BCNMs that need a tank, etc.

It might come as a suprised, but we do like exp/merits as much as the next job too.


You say you like exp too, but what can you offer in a colibri camp ? tanking? useless there! Curing? Rdm can do that all day long (whm killer)! DD? only if you have good gear to do dmg and tell people about it, lol pld with tanking gear only does poor dmg and even if its really angering but if you cannot contribute to the exp then you are leaching, yes you lose exp if your tanking or being a whm and it's sucks really bad that both theses jobs can't get a decent way to gain back their exp but DD lose exp too, you haven't seen Mayeh, he probably lose 20k exp every week.


As a side note, once you get your sam to 75, you will understand how much exp can be gained in a Colibri merit pt.

I am really sorry about this reply, i'm sleepy and not sure if i'm phrasing what i really want to say correctly, i really don't want to hurt you in anyway, if anything i've said hurt you, plz reply to this post so i can clarify what i wanted to say since i'm really bad with word in french and even worse in english

I'm taking your rant too personal and i'm sorry but you shot your own foot off when you said you had only a lol pld when we asked about people wanted a merit pt. Yes, situations like that makes plds/whm/anyotherjobsthatgetleftout really angry but you need to remember that job/races/gears are always less then the players skills and unless you can promote yourself in a positive way you won't get much invites. For merits its always has been go best merit settup and get tons of merit or support a friend and get half the merit you could have gotten for the same time. This has been the way SE have implemented ToAu and its their fault. This was only my 2nd full DD merits and it owns. Its really sad for some jobs but its how FF work.

All of this text and i have forgotten all the BLMs that lose more exp then the pld and whm combined and wont be invited in merits, tho they can do mana burn merits. Smn also get the bad end of the sticks, its probably thru for all the non-"Standard DD" jobs

Kade wrote:
I'm not even sure if i want to try to get to Limbus anymore for my PLD, since i would be expected to do my job and tank, but what is the point of getting better tank gear when all your tank seems to be good for is tanking to help other people get better gear ?


Your a PLD, tanking IS your job, as for what your tanking, normally in end-gaming your tanking mob to help other people get THEIR items so that THEY can help YOU get your items. The problems lies in the rarity of the items, and it can cause drama because item that tend to drop the most are mostly useful to the people that help the less.

Exp has always, and even before ToAu, be a touchy thing, there always was one or more jobs that were left out because they would "gimp out" the exp. And now thanks to campaign battles and level sync, there are less merit parties out there, so the colibri camps are more open thus people can go there and get tons of exp fast instead of going on trolls or imps who are way more dangerous and gives a lot less exp.


Anyway, if you really want exp on pld, i'm in dire needs of merit but more importantly, i really need a LOT more Conquest points so if you would make a sky, moon, or pre-everything exp PT, i'd love to join or do a ToAu Pt but i hate making pts so you have to make it.

The best way to get merits is to make your own PT like Drg have been doing since the penta nerf or do like i did, lvl a DD job like your currently doing on sam. Blaming people that want fast merits is a lot easier but your not the only one in that position, i quit whm because of the lack of party invites and i'm glad i did that, pld and drk are a lot of fun to play and im trying to get other jobs to 75.

Kade wrote:
For the 2nd time in as many weeks, i have seen the question "Anybody want to merit" asked in linkshell chat, and 2nd time was left out because all i have at level 75 is PLD.


You need to work on you job presentation because saying you only have a lol pld won't score you many invites (since some people who don't know you would think you just want to leach even tho you want and can contribute to the pt) but saying i might only have pld but i have DD gears and can help backup cure will help you more. It's the sad truth but this is how FF was made and its all in how you present yourself, lol pld leach or lol pld DD that at least do some decent dmg. Tho i don't think my whm/dd will ever be invited in a merit pt T.T tho 1 or 2 people said they wouldnt mind trying it since i have a positive attitude with it, tho without a relic club whm/dd is pretty bad dmg wise tho i once pt'ed with a whm that made his own pt who was /war defender tanking and he did better then a lot of the nq tanks i've seen in my life (He did that because there werent any tank lfg or even not lfg, lvl sync wasn't there to help).


If you want to make your own merit pt on pld, i'd be glad to exp with you anywhere, if you want to join a TP burn pt on pld then plz voice your application in a manner that will be positive and show that you can contribute to the pt (pld in tanking gear would do worse in dmg then a whm/dd with good gear) , i'm sorry but saying lol pld will never work.

The only thing i know we did wrong was forgetting to say that we were building a TP burn party and i'm sorry for that omission, that proves how bad i am at making pts.

Gawd so much text, im soo gonna get flamed since im pretty sure i didnt write what i really wanted to say correctly. Sorry T.T

See you tomorrow when i will have to parse and reply to all the flames T.T

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:21 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Neovilla
Bird Basher


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 2593
Location: Oceanside, CA

lol sure wrote a lot for being sleepy >.> must of been building up inside XD. Lucky got the most of all of it in his post >.> but ya i lvled another job after getting thf to 75 and now I don't use RNG other then for events lol D: and it is in need of exp /cry. If i wanted to though to get a merit pty I would try getting a pty together or flag up in campaign but >.> since I'm happy doing what i'm doing farming(not really but its a plan) ; =; for gil for gears.

When I hear the merit chat its something I would like to join but I'm usually busy with something. As lucky noted each job has some benefits over others and as such you move with the times had try to get that job to work in that spot. As such I would go with the whole daul-wield'n pld stuff and don't try to sell yourself short as you have the skills to back it up.


Also some ppl are comfortable with getting a lot of exp fast. Those jobs that are needed are usually heavy dd and we all don't have one laying around but when we get one lvled up there, we know what to expect, invites.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Budoukiba
The Poor Neenja


Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Location: Bettendorf, IA

It's pretty much the same with my WHM at times.. People always prefer the RDM or SCH over the only job I have at 75, which is why I'm lvling WAR to 75. Sure, I haven't been on in awhile, but I've been pretty busy IRL to really put time into FFXI. But when I get back, that WAR is continuing it's trek straight to 75.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Kade
The Duke of San d'Oria


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: WI

I understand what your getting at lucky, but you pretty much pointed out the biggest problem i have with someone saying "anybody" want to merit.

If you say anybody want to merit, that denotes your willing to make an effort to go to a camp that any(body) job can be usefull in.

What should have been said is: Anybody want to TP burn merit on colibiri.

The reason i said lolpld in the first place was due to the experience i had last week.

I had asked if we were still gonna merit when i was told, still deciding.

Not even 10 minutes later party was moving to area, i was standing around looking like a dumbass because person who asked did not have enough courage and/or courtousy to tell me sorry, your job is not going to be usefull at this camp, i should have phrased my question better.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Ninelives
Le Fantôme de l’Forums


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 2110
Location: Kansas City, MO

I like it when I'm told my Thief isn't useful in a merit on Colibri, and after outparsing them with overall DoT and a few 2k+ Eviscerations they still think I'm useless compared to that SAM wielding a polearm.

That's not sarcasm btw, I really do like it. I like knowing I can do more than people expect, and they can lolThf me while I'm off soloing Serket.

That's the main reason when I see "anybody want to merit" in LS chat I ignore it, since Black Mage is never wanted and White Mage and Thief are considered "well, if we HAVE to" jobs. I've heard "two bards onry" in LS chat too, so I'm waiting until my Corsair hits 75 before I ever raise my hand in LS chat to go.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Wumyamya
Ulmia's Soulmate


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 2329

I think Lucky said the one thing they didn't do in the "anybody want to merit" comment was specify that they were trying to build a TP burn. He admitted that was a mea culpa.

I think if someone wants to merit a particular job they should try to put a party together themselves. That way, they can build the party they want, and take it to whatever XP area they choose.

We're still trying for that WHM/NIN club burn in KRT. Smile It will happen someday and it will be a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

And I admit PLDs are not much wanted for Colibri parties, but as BRD I always appreciated their presence. They were the ONLY ones who ever voked slept mobs off me while I was pulling, other than Striker on NIN. None of the other pansy DD with /WAR (or especially WAR/NIN) could be bothered. And that's one of the many reasons why I don't merit on BRD anymore. Razz

Wumy
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Alananir
DocWilco


Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3656

Wumyamya wrote:
And I admit PLDs are not much wanted for Colibri parties, but as BRD I always appreciated their presence. They were the ONLY ones who ever voked slept mobs off me while I was pulling, other than Striker on NIN. None of the other pansy DD with /WAR (or especially WAR/NIN) could be bothered. And that's one of the many reasons why I don't merit on BRD anymore. Razz


You should merit with me. >_>

People will confirm that I do my best to Provoke mobs.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

LuckyAlex
Why hasn't Lucky asked for a title yet?


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 491

Kade wrote:
I understand what your getting at lucky, but you pretty much pointed out the biggest problem i have with someone saying "anybody" want to merit.

If you say anybody want to merit, that denotes your willing to make an effort to go to a camp that any(body) job can be usefull in.

What should have been said is: Anybody want to TP burn merit on colibiri.

The reason i said lolpld in the first place was due to the experience i had last week.

I had asked if we were still gonna merit when i was told, still deciding.

Not even 10 minutes later party was moving to area, i was standing around looking like a dumbass because person who asked did not have enough courage and/or courtousy to tell me sorry, your job is not going to be usefull at this camp, i should have phrased my question better.


Honestly that person need to be kicked out of the LS, you are NOT allowed to say maybe to someone then leave out without him/her that plain MEAN and rude and should be a GOOD reason to kick that person out of the LS. Please notify Striker or a pearlsack holder to put a blame on that person head so that in the future if that person acts mean they can be kicked out fast.

That's why i said i'm sorry we didn't phrase it correctly but if you have come forth saying you had good DD gear and was willing to come pld/dd then i'm pretty sure we would have invited you, at least I would have tried to make it happened.


Kade wrote:
If you say anybody want to merit, that denotes your willing to make an effort to go to a camp that any(body) job can be usefull in.


False, PLD DD CAN be usefull in a colibri merits.

At 75 you need to be versatile with your jobs, WE are NOT gonna go to a 1k/hour camp or a better exp/hour camp where we will most likely die 2-3 times just to bring a pld with us when he could come pld DD and we would still get fast, easy and safe exp. If you just want to pld tank geared pld to exp then i suggest to build your own pts, i would gladly joins you but trying to force the pt to change camp just so you could "Tank" is selfish in its own way.

Like i said DD geared Pld could join and if you had promoted yourself as that then been refused then yes that would be bad and a good reason to be angry. I have Pld lvled too and the more i was coming near to 75 the more i had to exchange tanking gear to DD gear to be able to keep up with the mobs being squishier. Some Pt i had to tank in full DD gear even tho i was still main tank because they weren't doing much dmg to me and i could increase my dmg high enough to be able to keep up with how much dmg the DD's were doing.

With Campaign battles, most LS people don't merit much anymore, because you can get good exp in campaign without the problems of building a pt, so that leave the TP burn PTs that would ask via LS if anyone wants to join in. You just need to promote yourself like you would for a job interview if people don't know how good your job is.


Ninelives wrote:
I like it when I'm told my Thief isn't useful in a merit on Colibri, and after outparsing them with overall DoT and a few 2k+ Eviscerations they still think I'm useless compared to that SAM wielding a polearm.

That's not sarcasm btw, I really do like it. I like knowing I can do more than people expect, and they can lolThf me while I'm off soloing Serket.

That's the main reason when I see "anybody want to merit" in LS chat I ignore it, since Black Mage is never wanted and White Mage and Thief are considered "well, if we HAVE to" jobs. I've heard "two bards onry" in LS chat too, so I'm waiting until my Corsair hits 75 before I ever raise my hand in LS chat to go.


It's always fun to know we are better then those jerks. Tho i must admit i didn't knew thf could be that good, tho using sneak attack could be a frustrating experience in a TP burn. I have all my filters up (thanks to my whm days) so i don't see and can't parse the damage of the other jobs, so unless someone tell me otherwise i still can overlook some jobs (im not perfect even tho im a taru) but i'm not normally picky when i ask for LS people to join up as long as they say they can say they would be usefull (its annoying to always have to prove yourself but its how FF is built and every players are humans and can make mistakes).

OMG COR PLEASE INVITE MY DRK TO YOUR PT CHAOS ROLLS IS PURE LOVE :P

The problems here is one of communication, people have build up bad misconception and needs to be informed about that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Nimdae
Dog Food


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 2238
Location: Texas

Alananir wrote:
Wumyamya wrote:
And I admit PLDs are not much wanted for Colibri parties, but as BRD I always appreciated their presence. They were the ONLY ones who ever voked slept mobs off me while I was pulling, other than Striker on NIN. None of the other pansy DD with /WAR (or especially WAR/NIN) could be bothered. And that's one of the many reasons why I don't merit on BRD anymore. Razz


You should merit with me. >_>

People will confirm that I do my best to Provoke mobs.


IMO anyone who did NOT provoke a slept mob on BRD or BLM or whatever is NOT doing their job. Yeah, you do damage, but if your support dies, what then?

I remember when DRG was a job looked down upon. I would do quests and whatnot, learned about other things I can do while LFP and would, at times, go weeks without an invite. Once I hit the magic level 60, I could do some exping on my own. Duoing with another DRG/WHM on colibri was just magical (we were killing so fast with no downtime that we were running out of mobs at times). Because I was able to adapt to the situation, when I did get parties and adjusted my setup to the party, I got a lot of compliments. This pic was taken when I was healing with a RDM, removing status effects, etc when a WHM could not be found, and we had minimal deaths fighting some nasty crawlers and other things level 60+ (I forget where):



Best advice I can give is to grin and bear it. It's the job you like that happens to have this problem. If you find ways to do your job well, and adapt to any given situation, you will get invites to do other things.

Maybe consider shedding some VIT for some STR and pick up another weapon? Can't you do more than just tank? If you can't adapt, then it's likely the situation won't change.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Squitt
電 話 武 士


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 3608
Location: Delaware, Ohio

In a rolling Colibri exp, you rack up the chains meaning you kill a Colibri within every 60 seconds.

With a full Sanction bonus you get between 187 and 212 exp per Colibri (Due to level variations between the respawns), from Chain 5 onward roughly. So lets just say that every Colibri is worth 200. In a 20,000 an hour party, your party has to be capable of killing to Chain 100. There are only 60 minutes in an Hour though, so if you're only killing just fast enough to keep chain, you're only making 12,000 an hour, not 20,000+.

Repping even one high damaging DD with a low damaging PLD would result in slow exp at Colibri's. In a 3 DD TP Burn, when the Colibri decides to Feather Tickle somebody, usually the other 2 DD's are at 100tp and can finish off the mob in time to keep the chain. If you put in a PLD in the mix, with kills that fast the PLD isn't going to be tanking; they certainly won't be building TP as fast as the DD's, meaning that one of the two DD's will be getting tickled and only one of the DD's will have TP to WS. The party will be hard pressed to get beyond Chain 5, in all honesty.

Now you combine this with the fact that there are people in other parties who decide that their group will camp on top of you if they feel you are killing too slow, because they know that if the exp sucks enough for you, you'll leave.
You can avoid this hassle ahead of time if you just make a group that can kill as fast as their group can. If you are there first killing, and they don't see but 1 or 2 Colibri up at any given moment, other parties will often just leave you alone and not bother to set up camp right on top of you.

Unfortunately that's basically how the Colibri camp works.


Finally, get this "I don't know if I want to bring to PLD to Limbus" idea out of your head. You don't want to hear what I have to say about that.
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Striker
I has Kikoku!


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 1328

Funny thing about meriting is, the rules change with almost every update.

Back in the day it was "arrow/bolt burn onry" then the rng nerf came and it was mnk/war(/nin)/nin that were the merit DD merit gods. Now with the inclusion of the colibri camp which eliminates sushi, DRGs suddenly became a valuable exp job. 2hd weapon buff, SAM became more of a exp god, hasso/seigen made every 2hd job worthwhile exp job. Meaning if you as a pld actually take the time to level your great sword skill, and get /sam leveled, you can be one of those 2hd weapon jobs.


But for the most part if ppl are looking to grind out 10 merits really quick ( 2-3 hrs of exp which is possible ) they are looking for the following setup, drg/sam sam/war war/??? brd/nin brd/whm rdm/whm. Now the sam and drg are doing most of the damage and the war is only there to get mobs off of the brd ( I've noticed that the guys I've merited with that are apart of an HNM ls actually do voke off of the brds ) and the war is really only there to not kill the mobs so fast that you lose chain waiting for repops. Sometimes the war is switched out with a nin/war, even with a relic weapon I have realized that when I'm invited to merit parties thats all I'm there for, I tank for the first 10 seconds of the fight and someone unleashes a ws and I lose hate till I use mine, and though I do out parse 99% of all the nins out there I'm still no real competition for the drgs and sams at bird camp. As a pld use some of that "tanking gear" you'd get from limbus which is actually haste gear that you would use to build tp, and get a good weapon skill set ( hecatomb set ) you can do enough damage, and you could be one of those ppl that are invited to merit party to do good damage but not so much that you kill all the mobs before they re-pop.


Eventually I figure that SE is going to make an area that is ideal for old style of party with mobs that have a huge amount of HP, which will make a party setup of pld whm refresher blm dd dd work well again ( icelands in the past anyone? ) only they'd have to give an exp bonus for using magic bursts, and just plain being able to kill the mobs or something like that.

In regards to a comment made in another post, I will not condone pearls being broken because ppl aren't inviting the usually unwanted jobs to merit parties.
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:20 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Wakk0
Megatron


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 545
Location: Los Angeles, CA

I've given up on merits! My attention span is the size of a taru head, even though tarus have big egos, that's another story. If you ask me to merit it might be during the summer break when I have free time and need to finish capping STR and Elemental Magic.
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Nimdae
Dog Food


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 2238
Location: Texas

Wakk0 wrote:
I've given up on merits! My attention span is the size of a taru head, even though tarus have big egos, that's another story. If you ask me to merit it might be during the summer break when I have free time and need to finish capping STR and Elemental Magic.


Taru heads are larger than normal heads.
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote  

Dove
Crab Crusher


Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 189

I used to merit quite abit on my BLM but I think I was lucky enough to have fab friends who were happy to party just for the sake of hanging out together rather than just to get 1,000,89844287420948 xp chains in one non stop totally boring eye watering session. Sometimes we would end up with a total mish mash of jobs and if anything it made it less boring and more of a challenge using jobs that weren't considered the norm. At the end of the day people play the game with different approaches, some are more social, some more focused and you have to respect peoples different gaming styles and find your niche so to speak. Plus meriting is a big con! I spent 2 years grinding to get to lvl 75 and remembered thinking 'Cool, that's it now, no more levelling'. And then 'they' introduce the merit system and I have do endless merit parties...dang.. Out of curiousity what level would a fully meritted job be equivalent to? 80?

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